CMSWire’s CX Decoded Podcast With Tom Wentworth

Marketing Leader Tom Wentworth joins the CX Decoded podcast


View all of the CX Decoded podcast episodes.

On this planet of digital buyer expertise software program, Tom Wentworth’s been there, performed that. Wentworth, now the chief advertising officer for cybersecurity firm Recorded Future, spent years within the CMS and digital CX area as a advertising and product chief with distributors like Interwoven, Ektron and Acquia.

Wentworth’s seen the evolution of the net content material administration software program area — and advertising know-how as an entire — from inside the seller enviornment and now as a practitioner and advertising chief. Identified for his unabashed, vocal takes on the area in social media circles and past, Wentworth caught up with the CX Decoded Podcast to debate advertising techniques, advertising management and his view on the digital buyer expertise software program area.

Episode Transcript

Observe: This transcript has been edited for area and readability.

Wealthy Hein: Welcome to CX decoded Season 2, Episode 1. Season One is within the books and we’re thrilled to be kicking off season two immediately. I am again with my co-host, Dominic Nicastro, senior reporter at CMSWire. How are you doing, Dom?

Dom Nicastro: Good. Wealthy introduced me again for season 2. Thanks for doing that. I recognize it. I should have performed a couple of issues proper.

Wealthy: Do not get too far forward of your self. You already know, you have to stick with it for an additional season.

Dom: Deal. No downside. Season two, man. I am prepared, Wealthy. What’s cool about Season 2, this opening present visitor. He is been within the trenches of selling know-how, net content material administration software program for greater than a decade, truly, on the seller facet, the practitioner facet. He is a coder. I really feel like we’re sort of pulling him again into SaaS. We missed him very, very a lot. So let’s introduce him with our little Friends Fast Hearth, we could, Wealthy?

Wealthy: Let’s do it. You talked about he is a coder at coronary heart. However one of many issues that I simply needed to actually shortly say is that I do know he is obtained a deep and wealthy background within the content material administration programs enviornment. So I am actually excited to delve into somewhat little bit of that. So yeah, Dom, let’s positively do it.

Dom: So who is that this man, Wealthy? 

Wealthy: This man’s identify is Tom Wentworth. He’ll be becoming a member of us immediately. 

Dom: All proper, what’s his title?

Wealthy: He’s the chief advertising officer at Recorded Future.

Dom: Why do now we have this man on?

Wealthy: We wish to get the actual scoop on all issues advertising, know-how, management, and the evolution of content material administration programs and CMS. 

Dom: Alright, that works for me. Tom, how are you, buddy? 

Tom Wentworth: Good. I did not know I might be kicking off the second season. So I am somewhat bit nervous to ensure that your viewers finds worth. Nonetheless, I promise you as at all times, I will probably be extremely controversial and opinionated. So I really feel like possibly I used to be the appropriate visitor for Season 2, Episode 1.

Wealthy: So we thought we might begin along with your background. And you have been by means of all of it with corporations through the heyday of net CMS. And now with a cybersecurity firm. Are you able to inform us about your previous roles and your new function? 

Tom: The short overview is I went to high school for math and laptop science. I went to the College of Illinois the place the primary net browser mosaic was developed. I feel I had my first web site in 1993. For a really transient time frame, I hosted the definitive Phish, the band. There wasn’t a Phish tour dates web page in ’93, for apparent causes, and I created it.

So I have been on the internet ceaselessly. I’ve truly spent nearly twenty years within the CMS enviornment again within the previous days at a pioneer known as Interwoven and extra just lately at Acquia. So I’ve kind of seen the entire finish to finish evolution of the web site going from, , one web page with a bunch of blinking textual content to clearly what has turn into immediately. So wanting ahead to this dialog.

Now, cybersecurity, for me is model new. I occurred to time it completely within the sense that we’re kind of at an unprecedented time of cyber assaults each day. There is a new ransomware assault within the information and my present firm Recorded Future, we sit on the heart of that. So it is an excellent place to be on one hand. Then again, clearly, there’s plenty of important injury being brought on by cyber assaults proper now. So I really feel proud that my firm will get to assist play a task in defending in opposition to all of those adversaries. 

Dom: So we’re excited time to actually dive into that world of CMS first and speak concerning the evolution. You are such a veteran in that area. And now that you just’re out of it, you might be much more so candid, now that you just’re not representing a vendor in that area.

Tom: Kinda. I did simply be part of the board of a vendor known as dotCMS. However, , I’ll definitely be candid; that’s not won’t be a problem.

Dom. Good. He introduced us candor. That is why he is right here. So Tom, we have talked to advertising leaders, CMOs, about what COVID has performed of their roles in advertising management and the way issues have been upended for you and your function and your organization. So give us a scoop on what the previous 20 months has been like. 

Tom: Yeah, I joined right here a few months earlier than COVID. So in December 2019 and clearly come March 2020, the world was switched the wrong way up. It is particularly difficult in cybersecurity as a result of most cybersecurity corporations are closely events-based. There are some massive occasions like RSA and Black Hat. There’s plenty of regional boutique occasions, there’s plenty of golf sponsorships. The our on-line world has historically been closely targeted on occasions. And an enormous a part of our price range going into 2020 was, after all, additionally connected to occasions. And hastily, nearly in a single day, all of that went away.

Like inside a 30 day interval, we needed to completely restructure the workforce completely restructure the price range, work out what we have been going to do to make up for the 30% of our pipeline that used to return from bodily occasions now not occurred. I am proud to say that we truly had an excellent 12 months in 2020, regardless of COVID, clearly, I feel the rise in general cyber performed somewhat little bit of function in that. However my workforce did an incredible job having to successfully hand over a 3rd of what we used to do, and determine one thing new out. And clearly, the brand new we discovered was digital. And a few issues have been internet new for us some issues we simply tried to do some bit higher. Nevertheless it was a scary time to be a marketer.

Wealthy: It looks like with the rise in digital adoption, that there would simply be so many new assault surfaces {that a} safety company must cope with. I’m curious to know in that timeframe, what have been the largest challenges that you just needed to cope with, except for , arising with a brand new enterprise mannequin.


Tom: The factor that we did that I am possibly most happy with, and we should always possibly discuss somewhat bit later is we constructed a information property. As CMSWire is the digital expertise trade, we’re to the cyber world. So we went out in COVID, considering, what are some issues that we will do which might be internet new which might be kind of possibly not what different corporations are doing.

So whereas everybody else is on the market sponsoring F1 vehicles and doing issues that cybersecurity corporations do, we had the concept to give you our personal new website known as The Report. And we went out and employed a few of the greatest reporters who reported for different information publications on cyber, we employed them onto our workforce, and we constructed round new website.

So I feel the factor that was possibly most revolutionary for us in COVID, was we spun up a complete new website. And we’re nearly now a 12 months later, and this new website is completely crushing it. I do not know what your site visitors might be cannot share it with me. And I do not know if I can share my site visitors with you. Nevertheless it’s within the lots of of 1,000s of customers a month coming to our website. And it is such an incredible asset for the corporate to have, now we have our personal new website with unimaginable reporters that got here due to COVID frankly. 

Wealthy: I feel that each group must be how they’ll create content material that delivers worth. And it sounds such as you guys have performed a extremely good job of that.

Tom: And it is not even content material. That is the place I feel it fails. There’s two methods you’ll be able to go together with this. You’ll be able to rent reporters. I can rent Dom at my firm, who’s an excellent reporter. After which I can inform Dom, you bought to put in writing a bunch of selling content material and Dom would fail. If I mentioned, Dom, you come over right here and write tales identical to you’ll in the event you’re an actual reporter. That is what we have performed. Like we run this enterprise, church and state, there’s zero advertising oversight over what our reporters write about. They write as in the event that they work for the Wall Avenue Journal.

They’re on the market, discovering sources, breaking information, protecting information, however they’re doing it with out the burden of getting to be entrepreneurs. They do not even think about themselves engaged on the advertising workforce at Recorded Future. They’re on The Report workforce. So we made a really particular selection not to think about this as a advertising funding. However actually, we’ll construct a information group. And the mannequin we use is Bloomberg. So the place can we wish to be the Bloomberg of cyber identical to Bloomberg sells terminals, however has a information workforce. You already know, we wish to do the identical.

Dom: Tom, you guys mentioned you employed a bunch of reporters and stuff like that. That is nice. It is an excellent tactic. However what about these corporations that may’t afford to do this, however they nonetheless wish to construct up their content material, they nonetheless wish to use it as a enterprise asset and supply enterprise worth, meet enterprise goals, get lots of of 1,000s of individuals to your website. That is superb. What are some methods entrepreneurs, , CMOs can take into consideration doing that the place they won’t have the price range to only create a information website?

Tom: To be very clear: Within the early days, the price range for this was the one man we employed named Adam Janofsky. So the preliminary funding was the price of: we use the $39 WordPress theme that we’re now not utilizing. However we actually went out and purchased a $39 WordPress theme. We put somewhat little bit of customization work into it. We employed a reporter and we mentioned, Adam, go write some tales.

So in some methods, it truly wasn’t, apart from hiring one particular person, we spent nearly nothing. Now we have employed extra reporters since, however nonetheless we do no promoting. The one price that now we have within the Report property is simply individuals. In our case information works extremely effectively as a result of we’re writing about cybersecurity, which is a newsworthy matter, and possibly not all industries have newsworthy matters, however I feel reporters like Dom take a unique strategy to content material. They’re on the market attempting to inform a narrative in a manner that the majority entrepreneurs do not. I feel reporters have some distinctive DNA and the way they strategy writing that is completely different than how entrepreneurs strategy writing. I actually, actually like the concept of hiring reporters after which letting them truly do reporting. And do not inform them to put in writing a “Buzzfeed 5 Causes Why Digital Experiences are Superior.” I feel that is the place it fails to me.

Dom: By way of the inbound site visitors that you just get from that new website, how does that occur? Is there plenty of , electronic mail pushes? Is it plenty of website positioning? mixture of each? is one supply of inbound site visitors like overwhelming the opposite? After which secondly, how are you utilizing that content material when it comes to like conversion, gross sales, that sort of factor? Or is that even taking place?

Tom: These are nice questions. So the primary is, site visitors comes from all types of locations. For instance, we just lately wrote an article a few Twitch supply code being leaked on 4chan. And that occurred to turn into a narrative the place we obtained a loopy quantity of natural site visitors. And I feel in the event you kind in Twitch, 4chan, we ranked primary for that.

So by nature of what we do, we have had some tales which might be simply get unimaginable natural site visitors, and we additionally get plenty of referral site visitors from locations like Reddit. We get plenty of referral site visitors from locations like Hacker Information. So , these are locations the place individuals speak typically about cybersecurity, our reporters have massive audiences. So in our hiring course of, we additionally checked out, hey, who’re the reporters in cyber, who have already got audiences, in order that kind of helped us bootstrap the viewers.

And I feel that was fairly sensible. We get plenty of social referral site visitors. So we submit stuff on common locations, Fb and LinkedIn, now we have a e-newsletter with about 15,000 subscribers that we ship out Sunday night time that drive some site visitors, it is sort of all of these issues working collectively.

However the place we see huge spikes is both once we break information, and we have had this occur, we had it occur immediately: We’ll break some information to the Report, and the Washington Put up will cowl it, or The Wall Avenue Journal will cowl it. So we get plenty of our fall site visitors on these days, or it will be this huge story. And we simply rank extremely effectively organically for it.

Wealthy: The one query I’ve is, if you started all this, what was the tip sport objective? Was it thought management? I am simply curious to know what the genesis was?


Tom: And I did not reply your query both on how do I monetize this? And the reply is, I actually do not. We do not use this website to run banner advertisements to pitch Recorded Future webinars. The one connection again to Recorded Future that now we have by means of the Report website, is now we have some associated analysis that is performed by our personal analysis workforce. If the Report writes a narrative about China we’ll present some associated analysis from Recorded Future about China. In order that’s the one actual connection. We predict that there is sufficient monetization, quote, unquote, that comes from getting our model related to top quality information.

My dream state of affairs, and this occurs continuously, is a shopper or prospect will inform us, hey, I like the truth that you might have these reporters, I like the tales you are writing, I belief Recorded Future due to the information tales that you just’re surfacing. So we do not have to generate profits from the Report, we do not generate profits. We do not do any promoting. We have no direct response metrics that we have a look at. I merely have a look at, is my viewers rising? Is my site visitors rising? Is my e-newsletter rising? And I really feel like if these are taking place, then we’re good. And my boss, our CEO, who’s an enormous fan of Bloomberg, it wasn’t an enormous promote for him to do that, as a result of he loves Bloomberg, and we’re constructing the Bloomberg or cyber and that is kind of the mannequin we’re going after.

Dom: That was gonna be my subsequent query. You are not monetizing this? How on the planet did you get assist for this from upstairs?

Wealthy: Proper? I imply, I’ve the identical query as a result of, once more, I feel this goes again to rooster and egg state of affairs. Editorial’s at all times been sort of seen as a value heart, versus a income generator.

Tom: I’ve the distinctive benefit of we generate profits by means of promoting a SaaS platform. We have got methods to generate profits at Recorded Future. I have a look at this as a model constructing exercise. I feel plenty of safety corporations will construct model by sponsoring F1 vehicles, or getting airport billboards or doing no matter. And I really feel like for us, what’s extra genuine was, look, I am not going to go do an F1 automobile sponsorship. What I’m going to do is rent three or 4 or 5 reporters, and we’ll construct a Bloomberg of cyber. That wasn’t a tough promote.

So I feel it is somewhat bit distinctive in my world, and I’ve different merchandise to promote, so I need not monetize. However now that we’re somewhat greater than a 12 months into this, I feel it will be actually arduous to repeat our technique. So I really feel actually good about taking that threat. And now now we have this sturdy asset, the place , the F1 sponsorship goes away or the billboard will get taken down. We’re gonna continue to grow our viewers, and I do not suppose we’re far-off from having one million customers a month come to our website and suppose that is going to be unimaginable.

Wealthy: One of many areas that we intently cowl on CMSWire, after all, is content material administration programs. Tom, along with your expertise on this area, are you able to speak somewhat bit concerning the evolution of CMS beginning manner again within the day with tech like Ektron, and Fatwire and Day Software program, and shifting it into immediately’s panorama?

Tom: Sure, I began my profession again in 2000 at Interwoven, and satirically, I used to provide Interwoven an unimaginable quantity of crap after I was at opponents, it was simply really easy to choose on them. However as I take a step again and have a look at the know-how that we constructed, what’s now en vogue, I am presently redoing the Recorded Future website, we’ll do headless and, and we’ll use that is truly breaking information right here, by the best way, however we’ll use a platform known as Strapi as our CMS, a kind of very new fancy headless again finish.

However just like the Interwoven structure circa 2000 is actually completely fitted to what corporations have to do immediately. I feel the structure and the underpinnings are somewhat bit dated, however the issue you are attempting to unravel is strictly the identical issues being solved immediately. I feel that it is ironic that you just went from these early innovators like interwoven to the Ektron, Fatwire, and the massive innovation was that we have been going to couple our CMS to our supply. So we have been going to say the identical database you are modifying your content material in goes to be the identical database that is going to serve that content material as much as shoppers.

And your complete world flipped in about 2008 by means of 2013, or 14, with all these CMSes is like electron and Sitecore, and Fatwire and others with this strategy. After which we realized, Oh my God, that is a horrible strategy. As a result of the CMSes aren’t tremendous safe. It is actually arduous to scale issues with that strategy. There’s all these trendy entrance finish design languages the CMS has do not assist.

It is fascinating to see your complete market is now sort of shifted all the best way again to what Interwoven was attempting to do again after I began. And the applied sciences are actually higher. However I feel one of many explanation why a few of these legacy not possibly not legacy, however the Adobe’s and Sitecore’s and others of the world are frankly, not fairly as related, as a result of I simply suppose this new again to fundamentals strategy is a more sensible choice for many organizations, and positively it’s for Recorded Future.

Dom: Yeah, Tom, we’re wanting so much at organizations and entrepreneurs attempting to capitalize on the decoupling and headless programs, , separating that presentation layer. So it sounds such as you’re doing that, as a advertising chief in your individual group, I might love some tricks to entrepreneurs on the market and why that is essential for you to your workforce, and the way they may have the ability to benefit from one thing like that, if that works for them.

Wealthy: I simply wish to additionally add that I am actually to know the way you make that transfer from simply the monolithic structure, as a result of that will get woven into all the things that you just do as a corporation. So how do you break free and transfer to those extra headless and composable architectures.

Tom: You pay an company a ton of cash to do it for you. However I will come again to that. So immediately, recorded future makes use of WordPress. And we host WordPress on Pantheon, we put Cloudflare in entrance of it in order that once we inevitably, somebody tries to DDoS us or, , we wish to scale extra fairly typical structure, proper?

I work for a safety firm. We’re extremely involved about our personal safety of our functions. And albeit, the WordPress-Pantheon combo will not be as safe as we would like it to be. So one of many massive drivers for going headless for us was round safety. And the truth that we will finally pre-generate flat information serve flat information out of the CDN or out of an s3 bitbucket, after which put Cloudflare on prime of that creates a a lot better safety story.

And I am oversimplifying the structure, however that is roughly talking, what we wish to do. So the primary driver for Recorded Future for this structure was actually safety primary, pace quantity two, as a result of huge websites are simply a lot extra nice to go to, we wish to be quick. So we expect that is an enormous profit.

And I feel the third profit is across the editorial expertise. Nevertheless it’s not the first profit. Like I feel Strapi is nice. I feel the headless CMS is as a result of what they do is that they summary away all of the muddle, they only actually deal with a extremely nice editorial expertise. And that is essential for us, however not practically as essential as safety and pace. So my workforce is we publish a ton of content material, clearly, however they’re most enthusiastic about safety and pace.

Wealthy: Google has taken an enormous curiosity in website usability and all organizations must be paying shut consideration to their cellular pace numbers as a result of it would affect the quantity of site visitors you get.

Tom: Yeah. And to reply your query on , so what now we have to maneuver from is a traditional WordPress theme. So our website immediately is a customized WordPress theme. And it is a mess of your typical WordPress rubbish code. It isn’t the fault of our workforce. WordPress makes it arduous to construct a clear website, nevertheless it’s a multitude of WordPress plugins, theme customization, CSS, all the standard stuff. So we’re working with an company companion who’s going to assist us construct, , a model new React entrance finish. So the heavy lifting for this new structure is not a lot on the Strapi facet, it is not a lot on coaching our contributors to learn to add content material; it is that we do should construct a from-scratch React website to have the ability to current our content material. And that’s positively not straightforward.

Dom: And this all ties into Tom, the emergence of the well-known DXP, digital expertise platform.

Tom: Do not get me began.

Dom: Tom, what do you imply, you have been at a vendor previously who beloved it and nonetheless loves it? So this emerged, what would you say possibly 5, six years in the past, seven, the time period? 

Tom: I feel it was longer than that I can truly bear in mind the primary Forrester Wave for digital expertise platforms that was created by my previous colleague, David Aponovich. I feel it was like circa 2014.

Dom: In order that got here out, and the definitions have modified and developed and what this stuff truly are. Some bluntly say, they do not exist. Just like the precise platform, digital expertise platform does not exist. And prefer it’s truly an amalgamation of a bunch of digital buyer expertise instruments like DAM, CMS, all sort of wrapped into one. And it is so this is the underside line query. Tom. Do DXPs exist? Or is it a advertising time period?

Tom: They don’t exist, they don’t seem to be a factor. And Tony Byrne of Actual Story Group would most likely give me a digital pat on the again to listen to me say that. However I feel the dream of it exists, like we would like a collection of instruments that work collectively to assist us ship a greater expertise to our digital channels. After all, that dream exists.

However as a know-how platform, we’re no nearer to having that solved than we have been 10 years in the past when Aponovich got here up with the concept at Forrester, proper? I feel the issue is, to start with, it is arduous to do this. And simply proudly owning a bunch of disparate merchandise that remedy components of it does not remedy the issue, it simply truly creates much more complexity.

I will decide on Sitecore for a minute. They tried to construct all of those merchandise from scratch to unravel these actually arduous issues if you had then pure performs like Omniture, attempting to do nice analytics and Marketo, attempting to do nice advertising automation and Drupal attempting to construct an excellent CMS. Sitecore’s having to compete in opposition to all these better of breed issues. So that they’re coming to market with this DXP providing that appears actually good on a slide. However if you get into what it could possibly truly do, it does not work. And I might argue that we’re not despite the fact that we have seen Adobe, purchase each main firm, and Aquia purchase a bunch of corporations and Optimizely purchase a bunch of corporations, I do not suppose we’re a lot past what Sitecore tried to do. These have been a bunch of loosely built-in instruments that do not actually remedy the issue they’re designed to unravel.

So I like DXP, the idea, I do not like the best way it has been executed. I do not suppose any vendor is all that far forward right here. I feel the one vendor that is possibly somewhat bit forward is Adobe, simply due to the model recognition of their part components.

Dom: Yeah, it appears to me like entrepreneurs on the bottom, do not go in to a demo, saying I like to purchase a digital expertise platform.

Tom: No. … The client says, I wish to purchase a CMS, and so they offer you some necessities. They usually say, all proper, present me find out how to construct a press launch, present me find out how to construct a touchdown web page. So , you construct that demo, and also you present that demo to the client.

However you then say, effectively, let me present you this. Let me present you how one can then run some AB take a look at behind it. Let me present you some analytics. What about organising an electronic mail marketing campaign? What about beginning in Adobe Illustrator and like getting some new photographs in, proper? Distributors attempt to change the necessities of the customer in a manner that positions uniquely what they’ve to supply. So the patrons now who began with I simply really need an effective way to publish some content material as a result of that is what actually issues, are actually making selections on options that an hour in the past they weren’t all for, as a result of they noticed this superb vendor demo, now they’re like. That is how that stuff will get offered. After which when it will get carried out, we get again to the truth of oh, this stuff do not truly work the best way we thought they did.

Wealthy: It comes again to tying this stuff straight to enterprise goals. And plenty of organizations overlook that.

Tom: Yeah. Agreed. 

Wealthy: Yeah, as Tom’s speaking wealthy, I am considering, is there one other SaaS CMO that left SaaS and may discuss SaaS? As a result of that is gold.

Tom: I am actually by no means going to get a job on this trade ever once more. So I’ve burned my status. Though Tony Byrne now loves me so I can go work for Actual Story Group. So we’re good.

I will offer you this, I feel the place the battle is being fought proper now. And this is the reason I’m excited to be part of dotCMS. I feel it is the builders. I feel the error of the fashionable DXP world was assuming that entrepreneurs are making the selections, that entrepreneurs have the groups to do that. I feel finally why Contentful is doing extremely effectively proper now’s as a result of builders are literally far more essential than anybody gave them credit score for. And builders need APIs. Builders need frameworks; builders need integrations.

And whereas all these corporations are combating over all these DXP issues that nobody makes use of, Contentful, and others got here in and mentioned, let’s simply construct a extremely nice developer expertise. I feel the subsequent battle goes to be again to fundamentals, the place do builders wish to write code. And that is who’s going to win, I do not suppose the battle goes to be received in advertising anymore. And I do not suppose it ever was, I feel that was at all times a little bit of a fable.

Wealthy: I do not wish to go too far down the rabbit gap. However whereas we’re speaking on this vein, how do you suppose that low code goes to affect entrepreneurs?

Tom: Low code is nice. That is the place Acquia is doing nice. They usually purchased a product that grew to become what’s known as Acquia Web site Studio now. And it is superb. It turns Drupal, which it may be fairly arduous to do significant issues with, into like drag and drop like WordPress. WordPress has at all times had these web page builders, that in the event you set up a web page constructing plugin, you are able to do fairly cool drag and drop stuff, proper? And plenty of business CMSes have at all times had this: Ektron had it, Sitecore has it, Adobe has it.

However the low code motion, if you’ll, that excites me. As a result of I wish to have builders who can allow me, however I additionally do need entrepreneurs who do not should go write React code each time they wish to change one thing in a touchdown web page. So I feel low code is the appropriate manner to consider it. I feel the parable although, is there is a no code, like that is the parable. Low code, although 100% agree. That is that is the place the long run is to.

Dom: Tom, thanks for moving into the evolution of CMS, we recognize it, we obtained about 10 minutes or so right here. So I wish to spend the final half speaking about your individual private branding, how you set your self on the market, you are very distinctive. You are not just like the CMOs, I often come throughout CMOs, often simply sort of keep behind their PR company and search for alternatives to speak to journalists right here and there, and so they do their factor. You’re on the market. Let me let me learn a few your latest LinkedIn posts. There is a particular place for individuals who fill out a demo request with rubbish knowledge. Here is one other one. Each time I see VP of Gross sales and Advertising as somebody’s title, I take a psychological word to keep in mind that I by no means wish to work at that firm. 202 likes that is the final time I’ve seen it. 50-plus feedback.

So hear, you say what’s in your thoughts clearly as everybody listening to this podcast can attest to, however you get engagement. Little question. What is the objective there, Tom of being on the market stating your case simply principally blabbing and saying what’s in your thoughts?

Tom: It is apparent. It is pure ego, ego manipulation, ego increase. These are issues I plan, like simply one thing hits my mind. And I simply go on LinkedIn and write it. Most of my posts get zero likes and 0 engagement.

I do suppose it is essential to construct a model. I feel it is essential that you’ve got one thing to say, say it. I feel you guys have one thing to say I’ve one thing to say. I discover LinkedIn to be an excellent place to say. I actually do not use Twitter that a lot anymore. Twitter was the place I might get in fights with my opponents on Twitter on a regular basis, possibly that was a bit immature. I might battle my good buddy Darren from Sitecore. And he and I’ve now turn into mates since that. However we would get these epic Twitter battles. I’ve matured since then.

However I attempt to share recommendation simply because I have been doing this for some time possibly generally the stuff I say may resonate with someone, I do it to troll each now and again. I do some subtweeting each now and again, nevertheless it’s I do not know, possibly it is extra I simply wish to attempt to assist some individuals with a tiny little bit of the ego factor I mentioned possibly.

Dom: However you additionally to the purpose of getting on the market. You even have a podcast to Scaleup Advertising the place nothing to do a Recorded Future, nothing to do along with your firm. You simply go on there. You speak to advertising of us, you discuss advertising, generally it is simply us solo speaking about advertising, attribution knowledge, issues like that. So that you’re clearly obsessed with your function. So what is the objective there? Like, , your individual podcast?

Tom: I like speaking. I like speaking to you guys. I have been doing this for a very long time. I obtained plenty of stuff to say. And I feel a podcast is I feel I mentioned this as soon as on this podcast, even when nobody listens, and I feel barely anybody does. It is truly enjoyable even simply to get my ideas out, and it forces you to suppose by means of. For those who’re gonna do a podcast and have individuals truly attempt to perceive what you are doing, you have to suppose by means of it somewhat bit. It is a great way to construction what you wish to take into consideration a subject.

Wealthy: We’re getting near time right here, you are in a singular place, having been a CMO and now engaged on the safety facet of issues. I am simply curious to know your ideas on, particular to advertising, what are what are the largest safety challenges on the market? I imply, me personally, I feel I am involved with ransomware. You already know, it is occurred to companies regionally to the place I reside. So I do know it is an actual factor. So I am simply curious to know what your ideas are on that.

Tom: I imply, I’ve a brand new appreciation. So it is extremely troublesome to purchase software program at Recorded Future. So I simply can’t exit. For instance I wish to purchase a instrument like Drift, or I wish to purchase a brand new CMS like Strapi. I can not simply exit and purchase the product, proper? I’ve obtained to place file a Jira ticket. Our safety workforce goes to go and do an extremely exhaustive evaluate of the know-how I am seeking to buy.

And on one hand, it makes it painful as a result of what for many of my friends can be 10-minute factor now may take me three weeks. However I’ve discovered that , now that I’ve extra perception into how dangerous … the truth is the largest assault vectors which might be utilized by adversaries … Drupal and WordPress are two of probably the most focused applied sciences on the planet, proper. Each different week, we see some weak WordPress plugin get exploited. And there are huge penalties.

And ransomware … you get hacked by ransomware, you are paying probably thousands and thousands to get out of it. However even simply model status, proper? What is the affect in case your credentials are stolen? What is the affect in case your web site is defaced? These are important model moments. So I’ve now worry and respect for the individuals who attempt to defend me from making silly selections. I really feel extremely fortunate that I’ve obtained a workforce of people who find themselves on the market ensuring that my website is safe, or as safe as it may be. I’ve discovered there is no such factor is 100% safety, proper? However advertising applied sciences are among the many most exploited items of software program. And it takes a extremely deliberate effort to guard since you neglect to patch that WordPress server, and two weeks later, there could be a nation state adversary on the market stealing your credentials. Occurs on a regular basis.

Dom: Tom, we’ll say one thing, and also you inform us “sizzling or not.” Synthetic intelligence. 

Tom: Scorching. The longer term. I’ve labored on this trade for somewhat bit. I feel with the caveat of there is a distinction between AI as a buzzword and the precise sensible functions of it in the actual world. However, , machine studying is what I might name it not AI. And this is what I might say AI not, machine studying sizzling.

Dom: Your web site.

Tom: Mine proper now will not be, about to be sizzling, although. It’s going to be sizzling in a month or so.

Dom: Cell web site.

Tom: Not. I feel cellular is a type issue. I do not know that individuals are visiting web sites and consuming content material the best way they do on desktops or tablets. I feel I devour extra of my content material in different social networks than I do on individuals’s web sites nowadays. So not.

Dom: Cell app.

Tom: Scorching. How come the kind of ubiquity of I can construct an iOS app and run it in all places. I can construct a greater consumer expertise, it’ll be quicker, , it is gonna have exercise. I feel you are simply seeing extra innovation taking place within the app world. Like you’ll be able to’t do a Tik Tok competitor on a web site for instance. Not that I have never also have a Tik Tok account, nevertheless it’s a unique paradigm by means of apps.

Dom: Electronic mail advertising.

Tom: Crazily sufficient, sizzling. Like our electronic mail database at Recorded Future drives an insane quantity of our enterprise. And I feel it is sizzling. I feel the notion is that , electronic mail is useless, however electronic mail continues to be the very best lowest frequent denominator to achieve individuals.

Dom: And one remaining one: social media.

Tom: I imply, it is arduous. It is arduous like I actually haven’t spent a minute on Tik Tok. My 8-year-old daughter tries to get on and may cautiously let her watch one factor. However the quantity of what is taking place with individuals so much youthful than us on these channels is completely insane. And I kind of really feel like there could possibly be a world in 10 years the place I am studying about B2B SaaS merchandise by means of somebody’s Tik Tok account. And I kind of really feel like that inevitably goes to occur.

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